Comments

I've read your comments on the (un)readability of the original document images and I've begun transcriptions. Please follow the link here for John McLaughlin's Deposition for Hugh McLaughlin, 1806, Bath County, Virginia.

Sorting It All Out #4

William McLaughlin, born abt 1807, Bath County, Virginia, moved to Braxton County, WV

26 Nov 2005, Kay writes:

"Dear Joan, I tried to reply to your posting on the Pocahantas website but for some reason it wouldn't bring up the window for me, so finally after 6 tries I decided to email you instead. I'm so excited, think you may have solved our dilemma about William. What we know is that he was born sometime between aprox 1807 and 1810 according to census records. One source says 1808 and says that he married Mary Jane Hall ( born 1827, daughter of Elijah Hall and Nancy Connolly Hall). Their children were born starting in 1853. Mary Jane may have been a second marriage for him, considering the age difference, but don't know. They were apparently married in Braxton Co (according to one source) and lived there, but we can't find a marriage record for them so far. Their children included 4 girls and 1 boy. The girls were listed as Almeda/ Alminda born 1853, Arrilla/Arvilla born 1855 (she is my great grandmother), Alevilda/Alwilda Jane (think she went by Jane) born July 13, 1858, and Edna born in 1862. The son is named James William McLaughlin and was born Sept. 14, 1865. We have been unable to find any descendants of any of these children. It took us a long time to track down Arrilla/Arvilla, but finally found her birth record, other info, also a deed that she and the other children signed apparently for William's property after his death. In the Elisha Hall book it said that Arrilla married a Robert Paintriff, but we finally established that the Arrilla McLaughlin who married Paintriff was a younger McLaughlin girl who was a neice to our Arrilla. Our Arrilla married George W. Hall, and we have been unable to establish if there is any connection between George W. Hall and Mary Jane Hall (wife of William McLaughlin). I believe from what I've found that they are two different lines of Halls (there are three lines in that area) but so far I've been unable to prove who William McLaughlin belongs to or who George W. Hall's father (Jonathan Hall) belongs to. All the info I had seemed to point to there being a connection between William and James McLaughlin. They lived not to far from each other, one named son William, other named son James, their wives had family ties, so on. Now can you take a look at this website link if you have time and see if this gives you any new info. It's the one that I'd been looking at. Doesn't show William at all, but lists two wives for John, and the children you mentioned plus others. Seems fairly well documented. If you are interested I can send you a picture of the deed for William that the children signed. It confirmed that his daughter married a Hall instead of Paintriff cause she signed her last name as Hall. I'd love to have a copy of the info you have mentioning William if you have a picture of it. This spring I got to go to WV and walked around on the property where William and Mary Jane lived. In the one census they lived next door to George and Arrilla and my grandfather was just a little guy in that census. My Uncle knew the general area that his Dad had lived in when he was young, but was tickled to know where the actual place was at. Mary Jane's brothers lived in the same area, so there was a section of several miles that was at one time part of the Hall families property. William and Mary Jane may have planted an orchard on their place, because there was an old orchard still there in the late forties. We think we have found were William is buried, but not positive, just seems likely that it is him because of where he lived and the connection with the Rose family whose cemetery he is in. He originally brought the property from Mr. Rose, and they were neighbors for many years. Well, better close, would love to have any info you can give me on the William you mentioned. Talk to you later, Kay"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

26 Nov 2005, Joan replies:

"Kay,

Hi! Good to hear from you. I sure do think we have found each other. I never knew where William went to. You mentioned James marrying Nottingham. Then you mentioned James living in close proximity to William. Was he married to Nottingham at that time? How did you trace them to Pocahontas? This is so exciting to me because I never knew what happened to them, and I kind of wrote them off. That's a shame, but I didn't know what else to do.

What I can do is this, send me your address, and I will copy what I have (or at least what I have that is coherent) and mail it to you. My scanner is down (and I just hate doing that anyway). I also have a website you might like to visit, though it doesn't have a whole lot right now on that John McLaughlin (William's likely father), but I have other things you might be interested in. I also recently had a novel published about the McLaughlin's, you might be interested in that, it includes John the father of William (only not until the very end). I am also working on another novel now about the nephews of William, Samuel Higgins (son of Nancy) and James McLaughlin (son of John) who went to the Civil War together. They are also two of my great-grandfathers.

My web address is www.mclaughlinsvalley.blogspot.com

Thanks!
Joan"

Sorting It All Out

The first in a series of "back-and-forths" where other researchers and I try to get a handle on the elusive McLaughlins. Hope you find something here to help in your search!

--Joan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
25 Nov 2005, Sheila writes:

"My husband is a descendent of Daniel McGlaughlin and Rebeccah "Ketty" Cleek of Bath County. I've been looking at all the records for McGlaughlin in the Bath/Pocahontas/Rockbridge area and was wondering why you didn't mention the following patents for John McGlaughlin. These are all available online at: http://ajax.lva.lib.va.us/F/?func=file&file_name=find-b-clas30&local_base=CLAS30

McGlaughlin, John, Jr. 1 August 1809. Bath County: 50 acres adjoining said McGlaughlin’s land on the rocky run. (same date as Daniel McGlaughlin took out a patent)
McGlaughlin, John, Jr. September 1816. Bath county: 100 acres on the waters of Jacksons River joining to the land of Jacob Castle.

The fact that these patents are made to John McGlaughlin, Jr. I'm assuming there was a John McGlaughlin Sr., [Family Group Record of John McLaughlin, Sr., here] even though I can't find any other records for him. The 1809 and 1816 patents can't be for John's son as he was too young.

I've also got an issue regarding John's son Daniel being the husband of Mary Carpenter, married 1823.

Daniel McGlaughlin Sr. didn't leave a will but his "estate" was delinquent in Bath County in 1838, but not in 1837, so he must have died 1837-1838. This man had at least one son the same age as Daniel McGlaughlin, son of John McGlaughlin. In the 1810 census Daniel Sr. has a son age (10-15) and in the 1820 census (15-under 26).In the 1830 census both Daniel McGlaughlin Jr. and Daniel McGlaughlin Sr. are enumerated, and junior is age 30-40 with a son age 5-10, etc, so he was already married. This is the same Daniel McGlaughlin found in the 1840 census in Pocahontas Co. in 1840 with a son age 15-20, etc.

The 1830 census has John McGlaughlin [Family Group Record, here] with 3 sons age 30-40 living with him, and sons James & Hugh McGlaughlin are enumerated separately. This accounts for five of his sons, and if Robert died before the 1830 census he would not be here. Thus I think the Daniel McGlaughlin (Jr.) is actually the son of Daniel McGlaughlin, and that he is the one who married Mary Carpenter and went to Pocahontas County. I am also incluined to think that John and Daniel were brothers and were sons of John McGlaughlin Sr., especially since they both patented on the same date August 1, 1809.

I would be happy to get your thoughts on this and will share any documents, etc. that I have on this family.

Sheila"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
25 Nov 2005, Joan replied:

"Hi Shiela, nice to hear from you. I noticed you said you had an issue with Daniel who married Mary Carpenter? What was that? It piqued my interest.

Anyway, you covered a lot of ground in your email, so I'll let you know what I've pieced together and then you can tell me where you are with it. In Bath in the 1790s were a few McLaughlins. John #1 was fairly young, born in 1764. There were James and Hugh who I think were brothers. Hugh was born in about 1757. Then there was a younger Hugh born around 1767. Then there was Daniel (#1), whom you mentioned, born maybe around the same time, 1765 or so. I do not know who their parents were, except perhaps James and Hugh who may have been the sons of a Hugh McLaughlin that died about 1772 from Pendleton County. There was another James and an Edward, but I'm not sure about their relationship to the rest.

There is also a younger generation, siblings John (who is the John, Jr. you mentioned in the land records, and also my ggg-grandfather), William, Hugh, Nancy, and Jane/Jenny, from Bath. This whole group moved on to Pocahontas County, now in WV, in the 1820s or so. I do not know who their parents are, though I've been working on it for years.

Daniel #1 had a son named Jacob, who as far as I can tell was his only son. Jacob married a girl in Pocahontas County, and I can't think of her name off the top of my head, but he moved off at some point, to where I don't know. Daniel was married to Katherine "Ketty" Cleek, I don't have any idea where the Rebecca comes in at. John #1 was the father of Daniel #2, who married a Carpenter and moved on to Pocahontas. John #1's oldest daughter, Nancy, married Mary Carpenter's brother, John, moved to Pocahontas, too, and was my ggg-grandmother [Family Group Record here].

Let me know how this fits with your research and what else I can add. Hope I didn't miss any of your questions.

How is your husband descended from Daniel, by the way?

Joan M. Kay"

Sorting It All Out #2

26 Nov 2005, Sheila writes:

"Thanks for your quick response to my email. Let me tackle one issue at a time. I'm going to put them in separate emails - believe it may be less confusing.

Daniel #1 who married Ketty Cleek.

Bath County Marriage Bonds and Ministers Returns 1787-1853p. 10February 12, 1795. Marriage Bond. Daniel McGlaughlen and Ketty Cleek. Surety John McGlaughlen. Keaty consents for herself. Witness, John McGlaughlen and Prac (?) James No Date for Marriage Return. Daniel McGlaughlen and Ketty Cleek by George Guthrie [Guthrie was a Baptist Minister]Although this record doesn't mention Ketty's father by name an earlier record does mention Jacob Cleek as the father of Margaret - with same minister. 4June 8, 1792. Marriage Bond. Benjamin Potter and Margaret Cleek. Surety Michael Cleek, Jacob Cleek certifies that Margaret of age. Witness William Givens.June 12, 1792. Ministers Return. Benjamin Potts and Mary Cleek by George Guthrie

Also p.24 August 19, 1801. Marriage Bond. William Hartman and Sophia Cleek. Surety John Cleek, Jacob Cleek consents for daughter Sophia. [no minister's return]

The name Rebeccah comes from Jacob Cleek's will:Abstracts of the Wills and Inventories of Bath County, VA, 1791-1842, by Jean Randolph Burns, 1995p. 66 (page 9) Will of Jacob Cleek (X) – dated Dec. 13, 1812 Wit: Robert Given, John McGlaughlin, Samuel Given, John Bery and Samuel Given Jr.Probated July 1813 CourtExec: son Petter Beq: to beloved wife Cristenah all movable estate and my part of the salt petre cove [saltpetre cave]To sons Micel, John and Matthias $2 each To daughters Rebeccah McGlaughlin, Peggy Pots and Eve Fuller $2 eachTo grandsons John, Jacob, William, Henry and Isaac Hartman and son-in-law William Hartman $1 each

p. 34 (page 267) Inventory – Jacob Cleek. Submitted July 22, 1803 by Robert and Samuel Given and Samuel Gay to John Berry. 111 ½ lb. gunpowder, rifle gun, clothing, 33 lb saltpeter, furniture, kitchen utensils, corn, wheat, 7 gal. whiskey, horses 4, tools, bonds of William Buckanan and George Gaul.

I really chuckle over the 7 gallons of whiskey - hope they had a good wake. I've also done some research on the "salt petre" caves in Bath County, which is very interesting.
Enough for now on the McGlaughlin-Cleek relationship. Will send more later.

Sheila"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
26 Nov 2005, Sheila writes:

"These are the land patents I found that pertain to the McGlaughlins in Bath and Pocahontas Counties. In regards to Pocahontas Co. I only pulled the ones for Daniel, as that is our ancestor's name - there may be more for other McGlaughlins.

The earliest patent is for "Nany McGlaughlin". It refers to this person as "him" and "his" in the text, but that could be an error. Do you know who this person is or have any suspects in mind?

There are two patents in Hampshire County on the South Branch of the Potomac dated 1788 [for Benjamin Reeves] & 1794, [for David Hunter] that refer to Daniel McGloughlin, but the Hampshire McGlaughlins seem to be an entirely different branch of the family so I haven't included them. There is also a Rockbridge patent for Robert McCullock, 1795, on Kerrs Cr. & Colliers Cr. adjoining land of Henry McLaughlin, but I can't connect this one to the Bath Co. McGlaughlins either. I found an Edward McGlaughlin in the 1783 Rockbridge tax record but no Henry.Will send more in next email

Sheila
____________________________McGlaughlin, Daniel. [Daniel #1]5 January 1803. Bath County.100 acres on the east side of Back Creek adjoining the land of Samel Neal and his own.

McGlaughlin, Nany. 15 August 1801. Location: Bath County.100 acres on the east side of Back Creek. [male – referred to as “his heirs” in patent. Doesn’t appear in any other records.]

McGlaughlin, Hugh.22 November 1805. Location: Bath County.75 acres in Willsons Valley adjoining John Wilson and Thos. Hughart.

McGlaughlin, Hugh. 22 November 1805. Bath County.100 acres adjoining John Wilson and Thomas Hughart.

McGlaughlin, John, Jr. 1 August 1809. Bath County.50 acres adjoining said McGlaughlin’s land on the rocky run.

McGlaughlin, John, Jr.2 September 1816. Bath county.100 acres on the waters of Jacksons River joining to the land of Jacob Castle.

Dixon, William. 17 September 1810. Bath County.55 acres on the east side of Jacksons River, adjoining the land of Thomas McCartney, and John McGlaughlin.

McGlaughlin, Daniel. 1 August 1809. Bath County.0 acres on Rocky run a branch of Jacksons River adjoining his own and Peter Cleecks land.

McLaughlin, John.17 September 1810. Bath County100 acres on the waters of Jacksons River, adjoining the land of William Dixon, and Andrew McCartney.

Wiley, Agness. [Who is this?]30 January 1811."late Agness McGlaughlin"Bath County.100 acres on the east side of Back Creek.

Lightner, Adam. [Daniel #1]26 October 1819. Bath County.40 acres adjoins his own land and the land of Daniel McGlaughlin on Back Creek.

McGlaughlin, Daniel.30 June 1846. Pocahontas County.83 acres on Back Alleghany on both sides of Moses Moore’s Spring.

McGlaughlin, Daniel.1 November 1850. Pocahontas County.94 acres on West side of Greenbrier River.

McGlaughlin, David.1 September 1853. Pocahontas County.68 acres on waters of Coal River and Moses spring run.

McGlaughlin, Daniel.1 October 1853. Pocahontas County.160 acres on east side of Deer Creek.

McGlaughlin, Daniel.3 June 1856. Pocahontas County.16 acres oa waters of Deer Creek.

____________I don't know if these are related.

North Mountain is by Deerfield, west of and between Buffalo Gap and Jennings Gap, quite a bit east of Jackson's River and Red Hole.

McLaughlin, Edward J.7 June 1827. Rockbridge County.200 acres on the north east side of North Mountain.

McLaughlin, Edward J.14 September 1830. Rockbridge County.73 1/4 acres on waters of the north fork of James River."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

26 Nov 2005, Joan replies:


[In a message dated 11/26/2005 11:46:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Sheila writes:
The earliest patent is for "Nany McGlaughlin". It refers to this person as "him" and "his" in the text, but that could be an error. Do you know who this person is or have any suspects in mind?]

Nany McGlaughlin is Agnes "Nancy" Gwin McLaughlin Wiley. Her father was David Gwin and she was first married to Hugh McLaughlin who served in the Revolutionary War. He died in 1798. She bought property under the designation "the late Agness McLaughlin" and then I think as a Wiley, too, after she married James Wiley in 1810, but I could be wrong (I don't have my land records out right now). She had one daughter as far as I know with Hugh McLaughlin, a daughter named Jane who married a Kirkpatrick and moved to [Iowa]. She had more children with James Wiley, one of which was a daughter who married John McLaughlin's (who lived on Jackson River) son John. I don't know if you saw my website, but a novel I wrote that was published this year is about Hugh and Nancy, as well as about Daniel and a few other family members. It is fiction, though it is based on all of the research I have compiled.

Thank you for reminding me about where the name Rebecca came in at, I had completely forgotten about that will as I have misplaced the Bath County Will Book that I own. I wonder, which was her first name, if one was her middle name, or what? I assume that Ketty was a nickname for Katherine, but that's all I can figure.

Speaking of names, the one witness you have with the name of Prac (?) James, is Isaac James. That took me a little while to figure out, but I like clues like that, who's close enough to sign a bond, or be a witness or what have you.

Well, on to your next email.

Joan"

Sorting It All Out #3

26 Nov 2005, Sheila writes:

"Hi again,

In your email you say that the John McGlaughlin Jr. in the land patents - dated 1801 and 1816 - is the son of John #1 b. in 1764. If I'm correct John #1 is the person who left the will in 1838 naming his son Daniel as executor. However, there is a problem in assigning the land patents for John Jr. to John #2. From what I've gleaned John #2 wasn't born until 1801 so he can't be the John Jr. in the patents. This is why there has to be another John McGlaughlin.

In the 1810 Bath Co. Census there are two John McGlaughlins: one is over age 45 and the other is age 26 through 44, but they're not designated Jr. or Sr. John #1 seems to be the older one in the 1810 census, b. in 1764, he would have been age 46, and the ages of the children fit. Then who is the younger John? Is he the one they call "Jr." in the land patents?

John Mcglaughlin Bath, VA 1810
2 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0
John Mcglaughlin Bath, VA 1810 [John #1? There should be 4 sons: Daniel, Hugh, John. James.]2 1 0 0 1 1 1 2 1 0 0 0

In the 1820 census there are still two John McGlaughlins in Bath County, but John #1 now has seven boys, and none of them are under age 10.

John McGlaughlin, Bath 1820 [John #1?] 0 2 1 4 0 1 0 1 2 0 1 0 7
John McGlaughlin Bath, 1820 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 3
[This John McGlaughlin appears to be in Pocahontas Co. in 1830, age 40-50, which can't be right if he's age 45 & older in 1820. The number of sons fit, but the number of daughters don't, no does the age of his wife, age 40-50.]
1830 census, Pocahontas Co.
John McGlaughlin 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0

Any help you can give me on figuring this out would be much appreciated - too many anomolies for my poor aging brain. Perhaps I'm making mountains out of mole hills.'ll tackle Daniel #1 in another email.

Regards, Sheila"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

26 Nov 2005, Joan replies:

"[In a message dated 11/26/2005 11:47:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, Sheila writes:
In your email you say that the John McGlaughlin Jr. in the land patents - dated 1801 and 1816 - is the son of John #1 b. in 1764. ]

No, I'm sorry if I confused you. John McGlaughlin, Jr., that bought that property was not the son of John McGlaughlin born in 1764. John #1 did have a son named John, born about 1801 who married Sally Wiley (daughter of Nany McGlaughlin Wiley) that I mentioned in my previous email.

As for your census figures, let me try to help you match them up:

John #1, born about 1764 and living all his adult life in Bath/Highland, had the following children (all birth years are approximate, unless I have an exact date):
Nancy, 1788 (married Carpenter, moved to Pocahontas)
Jane, 1791 (married Benson)
Peggy, 1794 (married Carpenter, moved to Pocahontas)
Abigail (married Galford, moved to Poc.)
Mary (married Beverage)
Daniel, 1796 (married Carpenter, moved to Poc)
Hugh, 17 Aug 1798 (married Grimes, then Sharp, moved to Poc)
John, 1801, (Married Wiley, stayed in Highland)
James, 1806 (married Sprowle)
Samuel, 1810 (Married Wright, died young, son HP moved to Poc, son Robert stayed in Highland and died in Civil War)
Robert, 1811 (died young adult)

John #2, born about 1781
Elizabeth (married Ratcliffe)
Nancy (married Higgins, died young)
William, 1807 (moved off to unknown parts) [Has since been found in Braxton County, WV.]
James, 1812 (moved off) [Braxton County]
John, 1817 (married Carpenter, daughter of Nancy McLaughlin above, died young)
(Also in his household in 1810 was most likely his [possible] younger brother, born in 1801, (Squire) Hugh McLaughlin, died in Pocahontas about 1870.)


You said: ------ John McGlaughlin Bath, 18202 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 3[This John McGlaughlin appears to be in Pocahontas Co. in 1830, age 40-50, which can't be right if he's age 45 & older in 1820. The number of sons fit, but the number of daughters don't, no does the age of his wife, age 40-50.]

When I have a chance I'll look this over, but there were only two John McLaughlins at that time in Bath. They both had sons named John, but they were both young enough not to make a difference. The younger John did move to Pocahontas. Don't put too much stock in census records, they are only an approximate marker or a clue, if you take them too literally they'll make you crazy, because they are so wrong, so often.

Joan"